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Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: manuel-thermoimagen 9/27/2006
hi guys..

an industry wants to install infrared windows at the cabinet show below.

this are high voltage disconects at 34kv.

any suggestion?

any info can be mailed at:
info@thermoimagen.com

regards
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: Bob Berry 9/27/2006
Check with the equipment manufacturer first. I came across a case recently where someone looked at fitting windows to cabinets very like the ones in your picture. The manufactrer said it would invalidate the certification and that the equipment would need to be recertified after the windows were fitted. They looked into recertifing the equipment and it was extremely costly. It pushed the cost per window up to over $9000.

Dont rush in and find out problems like this afterwards.
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: IRJay 9/27/2006
Some of this switchgear type has an interior door for additional protection. An ir window in this gear may not be appropriate.
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared sightglasses for this application: Tony Holliday (HAWK IR) 9/27/2006
Hi,

Good question, Hawk IR Sightglasses can definately help you here.

A few points to note when looking into IR Sightglasses;

a) For outdoor gear like this, check the environmental rating of the IR Sightglass and get a certificate from the manufacturer to confirm. For U.S. Equipment this should be a UL50/NEMA test cert. for Europe it should be an IP cert.

b) Check into the arc-flash testing of the IR Sightglass you are considering, if the prodoct has not been arc-tested then it could very probably derate the gear.

c) Make sure that the optic material can withstand the environment you are using it in. Most crystal IR optics degrade with moisture - including humidity - and so are not a good long term option. The only cost-effective material I know of is Hawk IR CLIVRU that is impervious to water/moisture and holds a lifetime warranty.

I hope this helps. I have attached an image of a similar installation we have performed on this kind of equipment.

If you need further information please do contact me directly.

Best regards,


Tony Holliday
Hawk IR International
TOLL FREE: 1-877-4-HAWKIR
Web. www.hawk-ir.com
Email. info@hawk-ir.com
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: Darren Billings 9/29/2006
Hi Manuel,

We offer IRISS brand infrared windows for use with electrical switchgear. Here is a brief summary on IRISS VPFR windows features, benefits and certifications:
• Work with all cameras
• Suitable for use indoor and outdoor without degradation
• Unaffected by moisture, vibration, airborne acids and alkalis and guaranteed for life of the installation.
• Available in true 2", 3", and 4" diameters
• Robust mounting retained from the inside of the panel.
• Meet IEEE C.37.20.2 section a.3.6 for viewing panes in MV and HV electrical equipment for metal clad up to 38kv and station type to 72kv. Greater NEMA 4 open and closed.
• Recognized by UL to their standard 508/508a and UL 746 (Impact and Flame resistant)
• Help comply with recommendations of NFPA70e by keeping the enclosure closed and not exposing personnel to live electrical components
The use of a properly constructed infrared windows enables thermographers to conduct a thermal inspection without increasing exposure to live components, eliminates the triggers of arc flash (accidental contact, items dropping in to open gear, and change of state), and removes the need for a second qualified person to assist in opening covers.

The windows are suitable for indoor and outdoor use and built to the same specifications as the viewing panes in your picture, c.37.20.2 section a.3.6. This calls for the viewing pane/window to withstand significant impact and load (applied over a long duration). This specification covers viewing panes in metal clad gear up to 38kv and station type up to 72kv.

We have sold to customers for this type of application numerous times, but you should insure you do not invalidate warranties etc. If there are explosion proof and/or arc ratings on any piece of equipment you should be very careful with field retrofits. It is not possible for any component to carry an arc or explosion proof rating. This can only be given to the assembly at manufacturing point.

Please feel free to call or email me for further discussion.

Regards,

Darren Billings
Sales Manager – Americas – IRISS Infrared Windows
Atlas Inspection Technologies, Inc.
(206) 274-4527 – 800 281 0650
d.billings@atlas-inspection.com
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: MROHAN 9/30/2006
Hi Darren,

No documentation I have seen for your products shows UL50/NEMA 4 certification?? A rep. told me at a recent trade show that because your products have been tested IP65 to a European Standard it was equivalent to U.S. NEMA 4 and that we could use them outdoors on our plant.

Our engineering folks looked into this and confirmed that it is NOT possible to equate the European IP testing to our US NEMA levels and that installing the IRISS IR Window products into our outdoor switches would derate the equipment from an environmental aspect.

Marty.
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: GREG 9/30/2006
Is this one of your products Darren?
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: Jim Washter 10/1/2006
WOW, has this thing MELTED?

That's why switchgear is not made from plastic I guess!
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: manuel-thermoimagen 10/1/2006
Thanks guys.

So, next step is identify the Cabinet UL certifications in order to keep security levels and avoid De-rated.

i will post again as soon as i visit this facility again.

regards..
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: Tony Holliday (HAWK IR) 10/2/2006
Hi Manuel,

When you look at the UL requirements check the UL50 test documentation - especially for outdoor equipment - and make sure that the IR Sightglass vendor can provide a UL Document that clearly shows the results of a UL50 test.

For example;

The results of UL50 testing to a level of Type 1 denotes a product that is only recognized for indoor equipment.

The results of UL50 testing to a level of Type 3/12 denotes a product that is recognized for outdoor equipment.

Mr Rohan is correct in his assessment that European IP (Ingress Protection) testing which is performed to EN60529 cannot be equated to U.S. UL50/NEMA environmental testing.

Please do let me know if I can help you further with this.

Best regards,


Tony
Hawk IR International Ltd.
Email. info@hawk-ir.com
Web. http://www.hawk-ir.com/
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: David Furley 10/2/2006
As the manufacturer of the melted IR window depicted earlier in these postings I would suggest that this window has been reduced to this condition by some other means than through installation in switchgear.

Most electrical switchgear components are constructed from similar material to the mounting frame of IRISS® IR windows and in the temperatures required to melt our window the entire switchgear would have already been terminally destroyed.

The IRISS® VPFR range of IR windows are fully certified to IP65/NEMA4 and IEEE C37.20.2 for metal clad and station switchgear and are the only IR windows that have the added advantage of compliance with UL508 and UL746C impact and flammability. As your specific application is for high voltage, please note that UL 508 is only for switchgear up to 1500 Volts and you should ensure that the IR windows you use meet the requirements of C37.20.2

Thousands of IRISS® IR windows have been installed with confidence in many US industries and a recent case study from a TEGG agent highlighted the massive cost savings made at a US manufacturer when a fault at 500°C was picked up through an IRISS® IR window that was totally unaffected by its proximity to the component. Please contact me if you would like a copy, there are some examples of our installed windows below.

I am disappointed that serious technical postings should be distracted by misleading information and invite anyone considering IR windows to contact me directly where I can offer sound advice from over 25 years in the thermography industry.


David Furley
Global Maintenance Technologies Ltd
d.furley@g-m-tech.com
www.g-m-tech.com
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: GREG 10/2/2006
Once again you attempt to mislead.

1.You quote that "the mounting frame" is made from similar material to some switchgear components. What about the Optic?? That is the white part on the above pic.
The fact is that this material has a melt point far below the melt point of the "frame" and is wholly unsuitable for purpose.

Prove me wrong Mr Furley.

What is the melt point of the Optic?

2.You quote IP65/NEMA4 as though they are the same which they are not.

Prove me wrong Mr Furley

Is the product tested to NEMA 4?

Please attach documentary proof to support your claim and I will stand corrected otherwise I believe that you are deliberately misrepresenting your product, no more excuses.

Safely Yours

Greg.
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: Ralph 10/5/2006
Do these windows require any kind of adapter to use the camera? We have a PM290 and I have used it to look through the windows with no problem, but my associate thinks we do need an adapter.
 
Re:Need Info on Infrared windows for this application: irdave 10/10/2006
IR windows installed in any nuclear plants in the USA? If so, please provide a contact reference.

irdave
 


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