Message Board Thread - "Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits"

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Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Keith 5/24/2004
I am researching the use of flash suits on infrared electrical inspections on high voltage equipment.

(1) Typically, the customer is repsonsible for removing the the backs of 480/4160 equipment.

(2) We then inspect the equipment, from a distance without flash suits. Our customers are electric utilities and thus do not fall under NFPA70E (as stated in NFPA70E).

Since, this is NOT considered working on the equipment, procedures site we are not required to dress out. Due to updates in our procedures there is now a question as to wearing a flash suit or additional ppe's than normal hardhat, safety glasses, etc. We are trying to determine what is a safe distance to be from the equipment cabinets without dressing out short of calculating each individaul cubicle. We are also looking at the possibilty of installing some sort of port or sightglass.

Please let me hear from you fellow thermographers out in the field that actually conduct these inspections.

Do you wear flash suits for IR inspections of high voltage equipment?

Is there more than one person with you during the inspection?

If you have ports or sightglasses, do you wear a hood or additional ppe's?

Thanks in advance for any replys.



 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Carl M 5/25/2004
Actually my thermography experience has been pretty much limited to low voltage (less than 1000 volts). I also conduct fault current studies and arc flash analysis, which is what is required to determine approach distances, incident energy (heat exposure measured in calories/cm²), and PPE categories.
I often do infrared inspections in the same facilities that I've done the arc flash hazard /risk analysis. The equipment is labeled with the information I mention, and the escort and I wear the prescribed PPE as required by the facility.
Often the prescribed levels of PPE are not that extreme and many 480 Volt MCCs can be inspected wearing a cotton t shirt, long sleeve Flame Resistant shirt, heavy denim pants, hard hat and safety glasses, which would describe a typical "category 1" application per NFPA 70E 2004. Category 2 would cover most other low voltage situations and would require the addition of a calorie rated face shield, hearing protection, FR pants and leather gloves. This level of protection is not as heavy as you may think.
There's a lot to applying and interpreting the 70E, as there are hazard/risk tables that take into consideration the particular task. Once the covers are removed and no operation of switches will occur, then the risk is relatively safe and the tables may be used to prescribe a lesser level of PPE per Protective Clothing and PPE Matrix table or Annex H, simplified Two-Category Flame Resistant Clothing System. The tables however are not so simple to use in the field as there are limitations to their use and the information needed may not be available (or comprehendible) Last word goes to the facility safety program and you.

CarlM
http://www.applied-standards.com/
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Thermoimagen 5/26/2004
hi Guys ..

about safety clothes issues:
Do you ever had visited

http://www.whsalisbury.com/

regards..
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Carl M 5/27/2004
Yes, I'm familiar with Salibury. Other good sources in the US for FR clothing are Tyndale, Workrite, and Oberon.

CarlM
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Thermasearch 6/2/2004
You will find the answer in the document that stated the confusion, The NFPA 70E, caution review the newest rev.

Mike
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Carl M 6/3/2004
If anyone is really interested in this subject, there's a number of active threads on this subject on the IEEE Electrical Safety Message Board
https://www.ieeecommunities.org/ieee.esafety

You may have to register to the site.

Carl M
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits J_Gill 6/7/2004
**Do you wear flash suits for IR inspections of high voltage equipment?**

Yes, Nomex

**Is there more than one person with you during the inspection?**

Two electricians trained with knowledge of operating voltage we are inspecting.

**If you have ports or sightglasses, do you wear a hood or additional ppe's?**

We have no ports or sightglasses yet.
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Thermoimagen 6/7/2004
anybody can post a full body picture of how looks like when make IR inspection ?..

thanks.
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits J_Gill 6/8/2004
There are pictures here:
http://www.whsalisbury.com/arc_flash/index.htm
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Keith 8/27/2004

I recently attended and presented at the EPRI Infrared Users Group Meeting (IRUG) on this subject. There is a lot of concern in regards to safety. There are NO specific guidelines and.or preocidrues that specifically addresses what the thermographers should or should not wear in regards to additional PPE, etc. A committee is being formed t look at this. Any information, suggestions and/or comments in regards to this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Keith B. May
Entergy
(601) 629-6266
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits groucho 9/2/2004
contact Gary Strahan at Texas Infrared for a great porthole gadget he sells for inspecting without removing the cover. You'll love it. his number is 409 861 0788.

bruce ibach
golden triangle insulation
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits J_Gill 6/23/2005
I currently use the required level PPE and the Micro Optical Eyeglass mounted viewfinder for surveys on all gear. This view finder fits easily under the NFPA required arc flash hood.
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits ringet 8/8/2005
Hello
A note from the marine side.
I conduct IR inspections on Medium voltage equipment onboard ships. The way we do the IR inspections on Medium voltage equipment is almost the same as a fire team. Two qualified persons dressed in the applicable Nomex rated PPE, in addition if we are exposing our people to live medium voltage equipment/buss work, we use a third qualified person as a safety observer. The two man team consist of, one as an access man the other conducting the survey. If IR windows or observation ports are installed we still use two qualified personal with the proper PPE, the access man also acts as the safety observer during the survey. If are people are not exposed to an open buss or equipment the PPE may only consist of Nomex coveralls, helmet and safety glasses.
Hope this helps.
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits BWC 8/11/2005
All electrical inspections, I wear FR (flame-retardant) cotton coveralls, safety glasses and hard hat. Only on exposed bus-work is aother person on-hand. Switchyard, transformer and cubicle work is mostly solo.

Bill Clifton
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits TAC 9/8/2005
Hawk-Ir makes a sightglass called the C-Range that allows IR surveys without cover removal or opening doors. To get good infrared images in electrical equipment you need to be operating at 40% load or greater and these C-range sightglasses allow IR scanning at full load without opening the equipment up. Most importantly the C-Range has undergone Arc-Flash TESTING with several equipment maufacturers and has successfully passed these tests. I don't believe the other plastic window products on the market offer this level of testing and safety to comply with NFPA-70E, 2004. I'd ask for test results in any event to make sure whatever you install can withstand the pressure wave and 5000 degree farenheit heat produced during an arc-flash fault.

www.hawk-ir.com
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits 70E Info 2/5/2006
For arc flash PPE you should check the Oberon products, they have the lighest weight garments, all inherently flame resistant materials and great polycarbonate faceshields. With this brand you can never go wrong, they have been driving the industry's arc flash market for over 25 years constanly innovating materials technology.
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Laland 2/6/2006
Hello Keith,

when we do Electrical Inspection even on high voltages, what we use are the standard PPE. I thank you for bringing this matter on the forum. What we normally do is that we let the utilities or clients open the panels. They know more of the workplace. We also make a safe distance to avoie arc flashes. Luckily, we hav enot encountered amy arc flashes. but I appreciate your query. I can now ask our management to provide us on this.
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits john taspeel 3/25/2008
this is the trick:
when you grab a wire make sure you're grounded with the same leg your grabbing with.
ie. grab wire with right hand . ground yourself with right leg. lift your left leg in the air.
this way if theres a charge it wont pass thru your vital organs , you'll just get the shock of your life. use gloves and don't stand in water =)

water damage companies that need thermographers:
http://www.waterdamageemergencyservice.com
http://www.localrestoration.com
http://www.localrestorations.com
http://www.rugmasterclean.com
http://www.305audiovideo.com
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Bob Berry 3/26/2008
john taspeel wrote:
the trick:
when you grab a wire make sure you're grounded with the same leg your grabbing with.
ie. grab wire with right hand . ground yourself with right leg. lift your left leg in the air.
this way if theres a charge it wont pass thru your vital organs , you'll just get the shock of your life. use gloves and don't stand in water =)

water damage companies that need thermographers:
http://www.waterdamageemergencyservice.com
http://www.localrestoration.com
http://www.localrestorations.com
http://www.rugmasterclean.com
http://www.305audiovideo.com
This is the craziest suggestion I have ever come across, I for one do not endorse it, but would suggest as an alternitive that we practise floating in the air, so as we can touch live cables without being grounded, a bit like a bird on an overhead cable.

Seriously, do not bet your life on the fact that you have lifted your left leg into the air. It might work once, twice, even many times, but sooner or later this will not work for you. You are much better off following safe work practices and not putting your life at risk. I am glad you at least suggest the use of gloves and not standing in water, I would add to this rubber boots, rubber floor mats, face shields etc. etc. It does not take much electric current to kill a person.
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Top Gun 3/26/2008
john taspeel wrote:
the trick:
when you grab a wire make sure you're grounded with the same leg your grabbing with.
ie. grab wire with right hand . ground yourself with right leg. lift your left leg in the air.
this way if theres a charge it wont pass thru your vital organs , you'll just get the shock of your life. use gloves and don't stand in water =)

water damage companies that need thermographers:
http://www.waterdamageemergencyservice.com
http://www.localrestoration.com
http://www.localrestorations.com
http://www.rugmasterclean.com
http://www.305audiovideo.com
Obviously, John Taspeel is not an electrician and hasn’t seen any of the safety training electricians get. The human body is an excellent conductor, once the insulation of the skin breaks down. Also, MOST thermographers are not electricians and wouldn’t think of “grabbing a wire”. My contention is that the man is not taking US seriously. His text is only a silly quip to get our attention. He obviously is only advertising for his agenda as he provides a list of links to entities that are hiring. Ha! He would have been more effective if he would have simply stated that and been done with it. He has entered the same information elsewhere in another forum: in Building Science, under “Experinced Thermographer looking to relocate.”.
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits HITECHSOLUTIONS 3/31/2008
john taspeel wrote:
the trick:
when you grab a wire make sure you're grounded with the same leg your grabbing with.
ie. grab wire with right hand . ground yourself with right leg. lift your left leg in the air.
this way if theres a charge it wont pass thru your vital organs , you'll just get the shock of your life. use gloves and don't stand in water =)

water damage companies that need thermographers:
http://www.waterdamageemergencyservice.com
http://www.localrestoration.com
http://www.localrestorations.com
http://www.rugmasterclean.com
http://www.305audiovideo.com
Kick him off the site!!
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits dennish99 5/3/2008
Keith wrote:
searching the use of flash suits on infrared electrical inspections on high voltage equipment.

(1) Typically, the customer is repsonsible for removing the the backs of 480/4160 equipment.

(2) We then inspect the equipment, from a distance without flash suits. Our customers are electric utilities and thus do not fall under NFPA70E (as stated in NFPA70E).

Since, this is NOT considered working on the equipment, procedures site we are not required to dress out. Due to updates in our procedures there is now a question as to wearing a flash suit or additional ppe's than normal hardhat, safety glasses, etc. We are trying to determine what is a safe distance to be from the equipment cabinets without dressing out short of calculating each individaul cubicle. We are also looking at the possibilty of installing some sort of port or sightglass.

Please let me hear from you fellow thermographers out in the field that actually conduct these inspections.

Do you wear flash suits for IR inspections of high voltage equipment?

Is there more than one person with you during the inspection?

If you have ports or sightglasses, do you wear a hood or additional ppe's?

Thanks in advance for any replys.



Why not consider the use of I.R. Inspection windows to safely address this issue?
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits mike1224 5/28/2008
I often do infrared inspections in the same facilities that I've done the arc flash hazard /risk analysis. The equipment is labeled with the information I mention, and the escort and I wear the prescribed PPE as required by the facility.
http://www.dr-airduct.com
http://www.restorationvip.com
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Flash 10/1/2009
As the distance between the source of the flash and the thermographer increases, for each situation a point will be reached where it is safe to stand. This distance is regarded as the
Unqualified Persons, Safe Approach Distance and the Limited Approach Boundary should never be crossed by the thermographer without guidance from the qualified person.

For more information see:
http://www.ukta.org/documents/COP304_d2_ElectricalBoundaryProtection.pdf

Water" target="_blank">http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_sacramento.htm">Water Damage Sacramento
Water" target="_blank">http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_south_lake_tahoe.htm">Water Damage South Lake Tahoe
Water" target="_blank">http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_elk_grove.htm">Water Damage Elk Grove
Water" target="_blank">http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_rancho_cordova.htm">Water Damage Rancho Cordova
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Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Flash 10/1/2009
Sorry about the last post folks... didn't know how to post links...

As the distance between the source of the flash and the thermographer increases, for each situation a point will be reached where it is safe to stand. This distance is regarded as the
Unqualified Persons, Safe Approach Distance and the Limited Approach Boundary should never be crossed by the thermographer without guidance from the qualified person.

For more information see:
http://www.ukta.org/documents/COP304_d2_ElectricalBoundaryProtection.pdf

http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_sacramento.htm
http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_south_lake_tahoe.htm
http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_elk_grove.htm

http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_rancho_cordova.htm

http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_folsom.htm

http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_rancho_murieta.htm
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Flash 10/1/2009
Flash wrote:
distance between the source of the flash and the thermographer increases, for each situation a point will be reached where it is safe to stand. This distance is regarded as the
Unqualified Persons, Safe Approach Distance and the Limited Approach Boundary should never be crossed by the thermographer without guidance from the qualified person.

For more information see:
http://www.ukta.org/documents/COP304_d2_ElectricalBoundaryProtection.pdf

Water" target="_blank">http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_sacramento.htm">Water Damage Sacramento
Water" target="_blank">http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_south_lake_tahoe.htm">Water Damage South Lake Tahoe
Water" target="_blank">http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_elk_grove.htm">Water Damage Elk Grove
Water" target="_blank">http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_rancho_cordova.htm">Water Damage Rancho Cordova
Water" target="_blank">http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_folsom.htm">Water Damage Folsom
Water" target="_blank">http://www.waterdamageout.com/water_damage_rancho_murieta.htm">Water Damage Rancho Murieta





please ignore the above post - sorry for the confusion...
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits fazlye 2/23/2010
Keith,

i have quite exposure in conducting IR for 11kv & 33kv systems,

- make sure you wear proper protective equipments, if you working without IR sightglass, ie you scan a transformer with the cover removed, wear your flash suits and stay away from the transformer at least 2 meter

- make sure you work in pairs, minimum 2 person and make sure that the personnel conducting the job having sound knowledge in electricity and rescueing/cpr/etc

- if you have sightglass, then it is better to be a little bit coutious by wearing the flash suit as shit happens and you you actually dont know when it will.


 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits fazlye 2/23/2010
Keith,

i have quite exposure in conducting IR for 11kv & 33kv systems,

- make sure you wear proper protective equipments, if you working without IR sightglass, ie you scan a transformer with the cover removed, wear your flash suits and stay away from the transformer at least 2 meter

- make sure you work in pairs, minimum 2 person and make sure that the personnel conducting the job having sound knowledge in electricity and rescueing/cpr/etc

- if you have sightglass, then it is better to be a little bit coutious by wearing the flash suit as shit happens and you actually dont know when it will.


 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits John B 3/25/2010
Keith-
Did you get answers to your PPE questions? I need to know about scanning 13,200 volt equipment, as well as 480 breakers. How does one manipulate an IR camera while wearing a 'space suit?'
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits DTIguy 5/19/2011
Without a proper arc flash analysis conducted on the equipment a determination cannot be made as to which PPE should be worn. Voltage doesn't necessarily determine the arc flash gear to be worn. A large amount of factors go into an analysis. Many 12 circuit 120v single phase panels I have surveyed throughout the past 10 years have been labeled as "NO ENTRY". I strongly reccomend a facility have an analysis performed prior to the survey. The last thing anyone wants is a false sence of security while dealing with electrical components.
 
Re: Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits James Seffrin 6/1/2011
Dear All:

The topic of NFPA 70E & Infrared Thermography has been previously covered in a Tip of the Week at our content-based website, IRINFO.ORG.

This Tip, and others like it, may be accessed for FREE at the following URL:

http://www.irinfo.org/tip_of_week_2009.html#t04062009

Hope this helps.

Jim Seffrin
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits brodie 7/14/2011
There is a great online presentation related to Electrical Inspections on July 27th-register at-https://www2.gotomeeting.com/register/709283491
 
Re:Electrical Inspections & Flash Suits Pure Restoration 10/19/2011
Check this out - Pure Restoration
http://prrestoration.com/
 


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